Curse

LoyalSoldier · Jul 16, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

I play both sides frequently and it isn't even close. Kurzick side has far more to worry about.

Luxon Side : Turtles that can kill in close to one hit and Warrior squads that attack in sync.

Kurzick Side: NPCs that are incredibly stupid and weak. The equivalent to Turtles is so slow and easy to kite it isn't funny. Gatekeepers will run out of the gate trying to heal someone.

Luxon Side: Only have to worry about muscling their way in

Kurzick Side: Has to spread forces out and thus a reduction in fire power.

If the green gate is breached, game over. The NPCs won't take the Amber if there is one enemy....JUST ONE! Then there is the nice little glitch that can create two groups of Warriors per Turtle.

If the Kurzick NPCs were better it might be easier to hold out.

Quote:

yeah, it's easier to win as a kurzick, you just have to wait out the timer.

If it were only that simple. In fact the timer goes against the Kurzick because you have to wait so blasted long. Of course you can give Amber to Gunther, but with how fast the gates fall you can't afford to give it to Gunther.

Iron Monkey · Jul 20, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Despite the difficulty (I always have to work hard on kurzick side), I like playing kurzick, because of the challenge. But it does seem titled in the favor of the Luxons, although it's more rewarding to win as kurzick as it takes more effort, coordination and thinking

Granted idiots sometimes makes it harder than it should be. If you can hold the gates at the start and do early amber runs, then you're in for a chance. You can keep healing the eles and assassins by the gates, and they do a fair bit of damage when pissed off.

If the luxons manage to get two turtles in the base, it's pretty much game over, especially if they have good MMs for support.

Although If I was a monk on the luxon side, I'd be laughing. Sounds easy, just heal turtles.

Song Rui · Jul 23, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

my magik haat

LoyalSoldier · Jul 24, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Monkey

Despite the difficulty (I always have to work hard on kurzick side), I like playing kurzick, because of the challenge. But it does seem titled in the favor of the Luxons, although it's more rewarding to win as kurzick as it takes more effort, coordination and thinking

Granted idiots sometimes makes it harder than it should be. If you can hold the gates at the start and do early amber runs, then you're in for a chance. You can keep healing the eles and assassins by the gates, and they do a fair bit of damage when pissed off.

If the luxons manage to get two turtles in the base, it's pretty much game over, especially if they have good MMs for support.

Although If I was a monk on the luxon side, I'd be laughing. Sounds easy, just heal turtles.

It is not early amber runs that you need. It is consisten amber runs. Many people grab the amber at the start, but once a few gates have been busted everyone tries to attack the Luxons which just means the Luxons are going to win.

Ensign · Jul 24, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Basically the problem is that when both sides are godawful, the turtles win. Both teams just die over and over again, but some NPCs drop in the process, and eventually you're at Gunther.

If the players on both sides are competent I feel that the Kurzicks actually have an advantage, between faster respawns and strong positions. But the players are never competent, it's almost always waves of scrubs slamming into each other while the turtles blow everything up.

This is why Edge of Extinction is the best Luxon skill available, actually. It turns all of your scrubs into walking bombs who can't help but blow up some NPCs in the process. The worse your team is, the better Edge of Extinction is, which usually translates directly into victory.

Peace,
-CxE

DragonFeast · Jul 27, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

wow, just wow, for one thing, its fair.. another thing its random so you have a big chance of a crappy team.

Riotgear · Aug 06, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Basically the problem is that when both sides are godawful, the turtles win. Both teams just die over and over again, but some NPCs drop in the process, and eventually you're at Gunther.

Hit the nail on the head right there. Although the warrior packs play a big part in it too, once they get through, your team has basically nothing to fight back with, they just pick people off one at a time.

Best thing against the turtles, just bring tons of degen. The longer it lasts, the better, just run through the portal, dump everything on the turtle, die, and come back for another round. That or high-damage spikes to cut through Turtle Shell. Most games, the Luxons don't have a monk and all of the /Mo players are too busy playing deathmatch to actually heal the thing.

Once you've pinned the turtle, you get to find out that the warrior packs are just as bad. There's not much you can do against the warriors, since the best thing to do is to focus-fire and kite them, which requires more coordination than you're gonna get out of a PUG.

Blurred Vision and especially RUST work absolute wonders on them though. They pack together so they all get hit by it, then wind up spending half of their time casting a 6-second healing signet, and go down much more quickly because of it. I'd imagine that Panic and traps would work equally well.

Or if you want to make it real easy, just make a touch ranger and go poke the turtle.

Luxons, it's pretty obvious, just run through everything and win. Ignore the mines, if you're with the turtle squad then amber runners get spanked anyway. If you want to get serious, bring an enchant remover, something that can interrupt Troll Unguent and Meteor Shower without line-of-sight, energy denial stuff, or diversion, the latter two to shut down touch rangers and prot monks.

Symbol · Aug 06, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoyalSoldier

It is not early amber runs that you need. It is consisten amber runs. Many people grab the amber at the start, but once a few gates have been busted everyone tries to attack the Luxons which just means the Luxons are going to win.

Problem is, there's a balance between running amber and defending that's really hard to strike in a PUG with poor communication. If they bust through the green gate while your amber runners are out, you're screwed since the gatekeeprs won't take amber while in combat

Master Fuhon · Aug 06, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Luxons, it's pretty obvious, just run through everything and win. Ignore the mines, if you're with the turtle squad then amber runners get spanked anyway. If you want to get serious, bring an enchant remover, something that can interrupt Troll Unguent and Meteor Shower without line-of-sight, energy denial stuff, or diversion, the latter two to shut down touch rangers and prot monks.

The biggest balance issue with this mission is that you can easily sum up everything that the Luxon side needs to prepare for. The luxon side heavily favors an individual knowing what to do, while the Kurzick side needs more. I was monking (healer), and for a few battles the monks/rits were the only ones wanding the EoE to death. Most of the time I spent Healing at the Green Gate from less than 50% weapon completion, so all I could do was spam "I have Edge of Extinction on me!". Team chat is a must, like telling people that one side has a monk healing the turtle, that a person is raising a minion army, or that an Oath Shot is dropping monk harming spirits (Natures Renewal, Predatory Season, Primal Echoes) along with the EoE.

You can't expect a group of people straight from PvE to deal with guarded Edge bombs that cause the entire green gate to wipe and almost kill Gunther in one instant (not exaggerating about the damage here). Furthermore, you always have people shouting to "run amber consistently" when everyone is out fighting in the center of the base while the monks/rits keep most groups alive. Some people may know to run amber, others may know how to protect NPCs; just having those two isn't always enough to win if the luxons are smart. Someone has to shut down the attack force by picking out the priority targets.

But honestly, if I had to change something it would only be related to EoE. It always leads to instant deaths with computer controlled AI around. Maybe having it take damage every time it has it's effect (like Rit spirits) will actually force people to drop it at the right time instead of leaving it up and doing most of their damage with it. Kurzick benefits of EoE are marginal on this map since it's easy enough to blow down the gates with any type of enchant removal.

Thom Bangalter · Aug 07, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

I always do eoe+nr+tranq+oath shot. I rarely lose unless the luxon side is complete idiots.

I completely disagree with the eoe nerf. It's been nerfed enough, it's barely used except here, and just because it's kinda overpowered here doesn't make it nerfworthy. It's the nature of the map, and the goals for each side that make it so powerful, not that the skill itself is overly good.

Master Fuhon · Aug 07, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

It's the nature of the map, and the goals for each side that make it so powerful, not that the skill itself is overly good.

It works everywhere the enemy doesn't know enough to take it down (PvE or low level alliance PvP) or where the team is completely preoccupied (Hall of Heroes) enough that they can't get over and counter it in time. It's a speed farming tactic in either of these situations, quick battles and quick deaths. Not to mention its a viable form of griefing that the game still allows, since Ranger Nature rituals are the only skills in the game that mess with the effectiveness of your own teamates.

The EoE spirit left unchecked is capable of racking up damage in the thousands on an individual. I believe alot of times the bombs were set off by the combination of team gate repairs and the turtle sieges. The only limitations on the skill are a team's abililty to set off a small chain reaction of deaths.

Now if you make the spirit take damage per species death, with a cap of somewhere between 10-20 deaths on a max level spirit, the EoE bomber has to be a little smarter. This needs consideration because a Ritual Lord could technically run a Signet of Creation with this spirit. But for a ranger in these situations, Oath Shot is usually set off by an immobile NPC instead of a real person with dodging capabilities. Having a death cap means that I could react to the situation by killing a nearby minion or pet to weaken the spirit.

Teams have to work much harder to drop spirits as it is, compared to what it takes to put them down out of range and defended. I'm in favor of having more counters, because nature rituals can currently turn Guild Wars into rock, scissors, game over.

Angel Netherborn · Aug 10, 2006, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

If Aspenwood were to be as balanced as the maps in Allicance battles, the poor Luxons would lose like hell. We all know Luxons hate fair matches.

It is so ironic for you to say that... considering you just suggested to someone on another thread looking to gain luxon faction quickly to just afk the mission. Fair matches? We would have more if you would stop making such suggestions and encouragements.

With regards to Aspenwood, for those who think the mission objectives is fine and balanced, I agree. For those who say it's the same on both sides and just depends on the players, I don't agree. The Luxon side is much more forgiving when you have a couple of idiots on the team. It's much easier for the Kurzicks to fall apart if they have poor synergy, simply due to the larger number of number objectives they have.

Rusty Deth · Aug 10, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Man I been fighting Luxxons with Monks and MM's for 2 days now...

In the end we been losing, just cause we can't get the turtle to drop fast enough. Once he's gone, the goon squad of luxxon warriors become unorganised.

However i have notice when I'm on a winning team there are no monks, or mm's. So really its all random. You gonna win, and you gonna lose.

But what i hate is the lack of activity in the Jade Quarry. its so much freaking fun, and such a beautiful map. It really has that Thunderdome feeling to it.

I was lucky to be in it once, none of us knew what to do, where to go, but no gates to hold, no goon squad spammig "coward". It was just a total blast. and it was close match.

Its ashame cause I played FA on both sides and both would be able to earn faction faster if everyone did the Jade Quarry.

Lets face it, FA is too much work on both sides for the faction you get. But Jade Quarry, pure fun.

Sparhawk Ashaman · Aug 10, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

I'm not a Kurzick so idk how hard their mission is. Even though I'm Luxon I still think Aspenwood is gay though....Aspenwood ftl

Lord_Pyrite · Oct 17, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

I reckon they should have had another mis like jad and aspen. Another fort one but were Kurzicks have advantage, it could be against one of their massive fish thingies. Then that way they could have made the jade quarry half in echovol and half in jad sea with 4 quarries 2 with amber(kurzick side) 2 with jade (luxon). Would have been more even that way.

Blah just throwing ideas around

Franco · Oct 18, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

I have to agree with you on Aspenwood. If I want to play at the Jade Quarry i need to go to every city in cantha and message the dedicated players to join me there otherwise it will not happen. I have fought extensively on both campaigns (luxon & kurzick) and the kurzick side is less forgiving. I won't complain about balance but I realy do wish that I had the choice (aspen or jade q). I propose all kurzicks who agree with me to join in the boycott of aspenwood, if there are no kurzicks then it follows that the luxon will need to go to where the fight is. I think if more people had exposure to Jade Quarry they would understand it and like it for the challenge that it is. So let's hear what my fellow Kurzicks have to say, will you or will you not boycott Aspenwood, if not for just one day!?!

No I want boycott it because it's a game, not the World War III, I'm geting tired of seeing Luxons and Kurzicks flaming each other every time I go, I'm sure Anet didn't introduce this in the game to watch people hate each other

Spura · Oct 19, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

I lose quite a bit more than I win. I simply think that NPCs are not balanced. Luxon warriors are way too hard to bring down. With that heal sig, you really need a good punch to put them down and because they go around in packs of 4 they usually totally own any player then come across. Kurzick NPCs on the other hand, are a joke, they have no selfheals, I can just use any DoT to bring them down.

If I play a toucher I can barely kills 1 kurzick warrior, because of all the selfheals, when I play toucher on luxon, I can solo any NPC group. In fact, I often follow an amber carrier right into the green room, where I can easly solo both gatekeepers(they can't heal themselves and prot spirit doesn't do anything vs touchers). Then I solo architect, whose high armor + watch yourself again doesn't do squat against life steal.

The best build to take out luxon warriors is to go with 4 or 5 water magic and get rust. 6 sec heal sig. I usually go fire ele with a bit of water magic and Rust. They healsig 6 sec while I pump out fireballs and mind burns.

The Young Commander · Nov 07, 2006, 01:21 PM // 13:21

i have played fort aspenwood very much on luxon but also kurzick and luxon is better because of people are ther often are offensive thinking and kurizick are it as well and its luxon who shall beit only, kurizick the only times i got problem is when i got 2 prot monks 1 on ech gate and i often then not have a nuker att hand so we often got defeated but i have own the kurzick many times with my ritualist the blind oracle or my ranger who i shall delete soon henrik sharpshooter put my ritualist is usualy working for kurzick but my guild is luxon sprirt masters are very good in Ab and aspenwood (kurzick ) specialy aspenwood in kurzick for the good castle to summon the spirits on in defensive stradegy well this is my point of view

//The Young Commander [HoV]

Eroth · Nov 08, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Okay enough is enough. FA is a major point of Kurzick hate. And all the Kurz Maps are of major Lux hate.

I say we have 4 giant squids from the Lux Tourni mission (the 1 w/ argo) and they all go killing spree on the lux and kurz. Each side 2 attack it and they have to defend itself. The squids can be killed but it will take MAJOR coordnation. Maybe it should be a race to kill the two squids or maybe it's a lux/kurz co-op mission or something. We need something to break the hate.
Or to make it simple, we have 5 turts vs. 5 FA giant things and everyone kills eachother, and it's like a race to the base thing.

Maybe we should just have a game of capture the flag. first to 10 wins. no turts, glitches or b*tchin.

Lord Oranos · Nov 08, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

I lose quite a bit more than I win. I simply think that NPCs are not balanced. Luxon warriors are way too hard to bring down. With that heal sig, you really need a good punch to put them down and because they go around in packs of 4 they usually totally own any player then come across. Kurzick NPCs on the other hand, are a joke, they have no selfheals, I can just use any DoT to bring them down.

If I play a toucher I can barely kills 1 kurzick warrior, because of all the selfheals, when I play toucher on luxon, I can solo any NPC group. In fact, I often follow an amber carrier right into the green room, where I can easly solo both gatekeepers(they can't heal themselves and prot spirit doesn't do anything vs touchers). Then I solo architect, whose high armor + watch yourself again doesn't do squat against life steal.

The best build to take out luxon warriors is to go with 4 or 5 water magic and get rust. 6 sec heal sig. I usually go fire ele with a bit of water magic and Rust. They healsig 6 sec while I pump out fireballs and mind burns.

Searing Flames RAPES them, it handles the turtles as well, I can get all four at -50% health in about 3 seconds and follow up with liquid flame or searing when they healsig. And nothing will break the hate Eroth, people are too retarded to see that both sides are equal in the end.